The words “Jesus” and “Christian” make us family?

Can we really all be one simply because we use the name Jesus and identify as Christian? Or does Christian unity require something deeper?

In this episode of The Study Boys, Lex Lutheran and myself (FLAME) tackle one of Christianity's most pressing questions: Can’t we all be one in Christ Jesus and get along?

Together, we wrestle with the biblical call to unity while also asking whether there are times when division is not only unavoidable, but faithful. Looking closely at Matthew 13, we discuss Jesus' parable of the wheat and the weeds, considering what it means to let them grow together until the harvest without abandoning the Church's responsibility to distinguish truth from error.

Is every disagreement worth dividing over? Can Christians simply rally around the name of Jesus? Where do we draw the line between charitable disagreement and doctrinal compromise?

Join us as we explore biblical unity, necessary division, Christian charity, and why truth and love must always go hand in hand.

Transcript

SPEAKER_05 0:00

Can I just say something real quick? Okay. I actually I I've thought about this for a little while. I think it would be awesome. It would take everyone setting our pride and our differences aside. This is just a thing, you know, one small thing, but like I believe all Christians should be like I believe churches should be like this. I believe that if you are part of the body of Christ, we should be able to do these things, right? It would be so awesome if I don't know if you guys know who Kai Sanat is, right? The streamer, how he has like streamer university, and he he gets all the streamers together and they have this big night where they all get together, talk, laugh, eat together, right? It would be awesome if Christian content creators can set aside differences and do something like that. I would love. I would love for that to happen.

SPEAKER_00 0:42

Now, this is where I think we're about to drift off into some murky waters. Let's see where where is Aaron taking this.

SPEAKER_05 0:50

If Ruslan and Marcus Rogers was able to sit down in the same room and pray and you know, eat together, spend time together.

SPEAKER_01 1:02

The study, the study, the study. Study, boys, we back. Good, man. That one dude is late. That corner. I see it. Exactly. Hello, therefore, man. Happy Lord's Day, my brother. How you doing, my guy?

SPEAKER_03 1:27

Doing alright, man. Doing alright. Just, you know, sitting here at church today. Heard the word, came home, partook with family, hung out. So really, man, can't complain.

SPEAKER_01 1:38

Can't complain. How about you? I'm on new location, undisclosed location. Wifey and I went to divine service, word and sacrament. Uh, pastor talked about Matthew 13, um, where Jesus talks about the parable of uh separating the weeds and the wheat. Yes. Fire parable. Definitely some good things to consider there in terms of, man, when should we uh pull up? Were you going too far? And when do we pursue? Um the pastor. That was that was his point. His point was this text is saying, hey, be cautious when you're out there just determining who's in and who out who's out. But he's also cautioning people that Jesus is not saying don't care. So that's the other extreme. So it makes me think about, yeah, two sides of the coin. You have one extreme where you go too far in terms of let's just all get along, forget doctrine, and then you have this other extreme. Right? So those things we have to care about and think about. So yeah, man, this is relevant, especially in a social media era where everybody has something to say, everybody has an opinion, a podcast. They they self-proclaimed scholars and they have thoughts, you know? So gotta think about this stuff.

SPEAKER_03 2:57

Also, a good point also to mention is a lot of times people can't tell in-house conversation compared to actually pulling weeds and tears out, where uh people can disagree on doctrine and still remain brothers in a faith and still acknowledge each other. I think sometimes people have a hard time with that. Like, we're not a typical type discernment channel, meaning that like when you watch a lot of them, they're actually going out to uh say someone's a heretic or land, like just go bad on somebody rather than saying, on this point right here, let's offer some nuances, some clarity in a sense. So it's it's it's a big topic in the social media realm, but also it's something that we're called to do. Like we have to be able to discern, but we do have the Matthew uh passage where he's saying, but just know that's above your pay grade to actually be thinking that you're the one that's gonna parse all this out. You're not the judge, you're not the bay of the field, you know? You're not even the jury. Like you're you're really not even part of that process, to be honest with you. But yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:03

Yeah. No, that's real, man. And yeah, before we get into this first clip, we ain't gonna keep y'all long before the first clip. But yeah, I agree. I I think, you know, in speaking for us, that's yeah, we we just we're not into saying who's in, who's out, unless it's abundantly clear, right? Someone is clearly pushing against the truth aggressively. Um, and and we still try to even be cautious with our words and how we work through that. You know what I mean? So, yeah, for people that kind of panic when they hear us, don't panic. Uh, we believe by God's spirit we're following scripture and trying to find those lines for ourselves and being responsible, and then how we convey that for all the listeners. So, anyway, uh let's get into this clip, man. I think this is interesting because this is young boy again, uh Bryce Crawford, making his rounds in this generation all over social media, touring and like and the like, um, just being uh uh a good witness in many regards for the forgiveness of sins that Jesus won for us. Uh, kudos to him in many regards again, because I seen him in places like O Block in Chicago, in the middle of the inner city, the hood, whatever you want to call it, all the way to Good Morning America, where he's sitting down on those couches. And he is relatively consistent when it comes to taking a stand for the forgiveness of sins brought by Jesus' works alone. I think that's fire. But you can tell clearly that he's influenced by just generic American Christian thought when he's thinking about evangelism, when he's thinking about how to think about who's in, who's out. How do you know if you're really a Christian or not? How do you prove your fruit, your fruit-bearing worthy enough compared to Matthew 7, where Jesus says, hey, you you doing all these things, but I don't really know you. So you could tell he has influence from just probably where many of us got our influence in these types of topics. So let's get into that clip. We'll talk more about it. Y'all will see and hear what we are talking about.

SPEAKER_03 6:20

Let's go. I can say I'm a Christian, though. How so? I go to church. I don't read the Bible no more, but I go to church.

SPEAKER_02 6:26

Yo, let me just show you this really quick exactly what you're saying. Jesus talked about people who would say stuff like that. He says, Not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven. And then he jumps down and says, Many people will come to me and say, All right, keep walking on that day, so judgment day, like we believe one day we're gonna stand before God, and our lives and our actions and our words are gonna testify against us, meaning, like, I can't blame someone else for the mistakes I've done. He says, Many will come to me and say, Did we not prophesy in your name and cast out demons in your name and do many mighty works in your name? So, what it's saying is a bunch of people are gonna come to Jesus and will say, Well, look, I went to church every Sunday, and I I helped the homeless man, and I did a bunch of good stuff. Look at all the good stuff I did. And Jesus' response says, I never knew you. Depart from me, you workers of lawlessness. What that got to do with what I said? I said I can say that. I didn't say I am a Christian. No, I know, I know, but being a Christian is more than just going to church. What is more to this? Being a Christian is following Jesus. And following Jesus doesn't always look like just going to church, right? Jesus is taking following God from a rule book to a relationship. And so he's saying it's more than just things that you do. Your love from God should fuel you to do those things. You don't do those things because you have to. Like, I don't go to church because I have to. I do it because I want to, because I love Jesus. So it's deeper than just doing things. It's all pure love.

SPEAKER_01 7:48

Woo! Man, wow, I got a lot of thoughts. What about you, bro?

SPEAKER_03 7:53

I I um, like I said, I I commend him from going out and talking this right here. I'll say two things. And for those of you who watched um our previous episodes or have seen him other places, is I wish he kept that same energy with Trent Horn. When Trent Horn was talking about not going to church being a sin and things of that nature, because um I I'll just say I wish he kept that same energy. My my main point, which is on topic, is is I get what he's saying. Just because you go to church doesn't mean you're saved. Just because you're doing something doesn't mean you're saved, right? But you can't just sit here and all dude said was I go to church. I don't really read my Bible, but I that's all he said. That's all he said, and that launched into check this passage out. Those are people who say what you just said about you going to church. Jesus says he doesn't know you. You like, bro, hold up, man. Hold up, time time out, pause, you know? Like, it's almost got to the point where you're trying to talk him out the kingdom in a sense. You know, where your discernment is is is so on tilt to where a person saying they go to church all the time raises your red flag. It it it it can't be that. You know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, if anything, and then um another part I highlight is how he was saying how it's about that personal relationship, it's about following Jesus, right? I'll never say don't follow Jesus, I'm not saying that. But I would say if you're gonna focus on following, which basically means keeping the law in a sense, you're gonna have a hard time looking at Mormons. You're gonna have a hard time looking at various groups that focus on the works aspect of it. A more faithful true answer would be trusting in Jesus. Knowing that you sin, knowing that you fail, but your only hope and reliance is that Christ died for your sins and rose. That you're not banking it on my obedience. Yes, I go to church. And guess what? That's a good and holy thing. You're hearing God's word. You're partaking in God's blessed gifts of the sacrament. You're hearing about forgiveness of sin and what Christ accomplished. That's not downplay with someone who says they go to church. Like, that's part of me where it turned into off that little bit he said. Now, maybe it's more to the clip, but a lot of these are just clips that he puts out or people put out of their mission while they're out there. Because it's not like Dude was out there doing something negative. Like he just hopped out of car from doing a drive-by and ran by and was, hey, Bryce, let's talk. Where you can just make the assessment of, yo, fam, you out here wilding. And for those who didn't see the video on audio, it's a guy just sitting on the roof of a car, which is wild, you know, in the regular neighborhood, but I'll be honest, I do that. I I it's my car. Sit where I want to sit. But he's just sitting there talking to Bryce, and that's when the conversation starts. He's not doing anything outlandish. He's just sitting there. So those are my off-the-bat things that caught my attention in regards to how we mentioned before people's discernment, how it's like two sides of the same coin. You have some people that just want to hug everybody, and who cares? And then you have sometimes on the other side where you're trying to find ways to exclude or highlight things, thinking you're bringing people in, but really you're pushing them away.

unknown 11:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:28

Yeah. No, that's great commentary, man. And it reminds me of how I was taught to get out there and evangelize. It it's sort of this us versus them mentality. It's this um, it's this sort of unhealthy way that we're taught to think about ourselves as Christians. So here I am, right? I was a teenager, I'm being trained on how to share my faith. And now that I'm in Christ, I go out and I point out the sin of others. So the the thing already, the prerequisite in my mind is I'm in Christ, I'm clean, I'm safe. I'm not perfect, but I'm in Christ, I'm clean, I'm safe. I need to go out here and get these sinful people clean and saved by God's might. So you go out there with this sort of us versus them, and you're thinking that the law somehow is okay with you now because you're a Christian, and that they have this different law that they're just failing miserably to uphold. So you already have this posture of, yeah, they're they're down bad concerning a law. Me, I'm up at least 20 plus points by the good works that I've done since I've been converted, since my testimony, my conversion experience, and you think you have this different law than they do, or you're held to some different standard. Now, granted, in Christ, we are new creatures, we're forgiven, but nevertheless, we're sinners and saints at the same time. So just going out and seeing someone, you shouldn't have this posture of they're really bad. Me, I ain't that bad. That's the first thing that I can even remember having that sort of similar attitude, temperament, being out there just engaging what I would think are non-Christians. So that's number one. Number two, yeah, I think it's so interesting what you're saying in regards to just the fact that he said he goes to church, man, he Bryce didn't know how to value that for him. For him, that was that was so easily dismissible. It's like a, it's like, yeah, but where the reality is, if this, if this young man goes to church regularly, bro, that quite naturally can be the fruit of the Holy Spirit that has been produced in him, giving him an appetite for the word regularly. Now, he did say, I don't read the Bible like that, but he does go hear the word, sang through song, read through scripture, presumably taught through sermon, and if he has an appetite to keep going back, we shouldn't downplay that. And I think we downplay that because in contemporary times, we have reduced church down to nothing. You don't even have to go to church. People are offended, even that why is there a man between me and God? I can just go straight to God myself. I got a personal relationship with him. So we have so reduced the gathering of the saints down to nothing, to unnecessary, to even a stumbling block, that when you hear somebody say they go to church, you don't even know how to have a positive posture and response towards that. So I think that's unfortunate on the part of how many are being brought up to have that temperament. Like, like, uh you say you go to church, and that don't mean nothing. And then what do we do? You whip out the law. Well, here's Matthew 7, which Matthew 7 is in the context of false prophets who are intentionally misleading people teaching false doctrines, and they're so arrogant, they think they're going to stand before God and be able to trick him and say, Didn't we do all these things in your name? Did we cast out demons? And so to just directly apply that to this guy who, like you said, he's just chilling outside from what we can see, that's an unfortunate knee-jerk reaction. And it does, it does display a misunderstanding of justification by faith alone. We are justified by faith apart from works. So before you come in hot and shoot down what may be the fruit of the Holy Spirit, hit the brakes. Hit the brakes a little bit because this may be the Spirit of God working in this young man, and you may just need to further encourage him. You might, that could have been a dope opportunity to say, man, that's fire, bro. I I love going to church too, man. Ain't it dope just to hear God's word and to be encouraged and to know our sins are forgiven? The conversation could have took a whole nother turn or went in a dope direction.

SPEAKER_03 16:37

You know what I'm saying? Yeah, because the scary part is since we're throwing Matthew 7 out there, you could be another passage where you end up being a stumbling block to one of these little ones. Like going about it this way. Like it works both ways. Like that this could have been a fire opportunity to say, oh, you go to church every Sunday. Oh, well, you know, let's talk about what you heard at church. What do you value, what did you, and seeing where it goes from there. Because, and let me wrong, people judge me if you want to. If I don't know you and I had to make a call, I'm gonna rely more on the person who does go to church every weekend than I'm a spiritual person. If we had, if we had to, I don't even judge that way, I'll be honest with you. You know? But if someone had to make that call, someone saying, Man, I go to church every Sunday, I don't read my Bible really, but I do go to church. I at least know that if it's a good church, let's give that premise. Let's give that premise. You're hearing God's word, you're hearing about Christ, you're hearing about the forgiveness of sins. You might not be reading the Bible, but you're sitting here being saturated in God's word. Like I have to value that because God's word is God's activity, that He uses those means to soften your heart. It's not you doing it yourself. So now you're reading your Bible all the time, yo, that's awesome. I'm not even going, that's awesome, you know. What I will say is it's a lot of non-Christian groups that quote the Bible ridiculously. Ridiculously. So acting as if, you know, going to church is a negative thing, or even reading the Bible is a negative thing. Nah, bro, that's a good thing you're staying in the word. Reading the Bible yourself, great thing. Going and hear God's word, great thing. You know, so I don't see how he got from that sentence to I don't know you passages of Matthew. Like, you know, but sometimes that discernment you go a little too far in a sense to where like the text we heard today in church, um we both are part of the same uh tradition. So we have a church calendar, so we kind of hear the same sermon, not sermon, but same uh scriptures being read. Yeah. Yeah, it's it's smooth like that, you know. Hopefully, you know, y'all jump on that church calendar. But look, it was uh that part, Matthew 13, right? And I'll read just a part of it. He put another parable before them saying, The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field. But while his men were sleeping, the enemy came and sold weeds among the wheat and went away. So when the plants came up and bore grain, the weeds appeared also, and the servants of the master of the house came and said to him, Master, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have weeds? And he said to them, An enemy has done this. So the servant said to him, Then do you want us to go and gather them? But he said, No.

SPEAKER_04 20:01

I'm gonna stop there.

SPEAKER_03 20:02

But it shows the aspect of saying that and I don't want to just bash on Bryce. I love the stuff he's doing out there, but if you're really in the wild like this, you have to be careful that you're not uprooting wheat. That you know what I'm saying, like you have to be more careful, and I I'll go as far as to say maybe show a little more grace and consideration to ask more questions before you get to the punchline you're trying to get to. Because there's no telling this man might have grew up in church going with his grandma, maybe out of obligation, going with his mom, maybe out of obligation. If you see the video clip, I know we have audio listeners that don't, he's not a little boy no more. So if he's going as he says he is, he's going by his own his own recourse, his own means, his own man. Give him some grace and maybe go further in the questioning before you get to the part where you're telling him God's gonna turn his back on him and kick him out of the kingdom because all he said was he goes to church.

SPEAKER_01 21:03

Yeah, yeah, that's real. And then to jump to judgment day and tie judgment day to our sincerity, to our works, as if that's what's going to weigh on the scale, and God's gonna be impressed with our good outweighing our bad. In that moment, we didn't hear about Jesus and his completed work. In that moment, we did not hear about what he delivers through baptism. In that moment, we did not hear about grace freely given that by faith we lay hold of and receive the benefits of that forgiveness. When he talked about judgment day, he uniquely tied judgment day to our works, our sincerity, our fruit. Now, granted, Paul talks about in Corinthians that we will be rewarded for our works, but that's in the context of the Christian, the church. And those rewards, one, the Bible doesn't give us a great description of what that even fully entails, but it does make mention that there are rewards for good deeds done, but not as if we earn salvation. It's in God's kindness, good works that we actually, I guess, cooperated with the Holy Spirit to bear. In God's grace and kindness, he gives some type of reward for those? Wow. And then Paul also talks about works that will be burned up, that were done in vain. What does that fully entail? We don't have a great description. That's not what Bryce was talking about. He was not talking about the Christian receiving rewards or demerits, if you will, strikes for works that'll be burnt up. No, he was talking about justification in regards to judgment day as he's interacting with this guy. And we gotta, again, that's not the gospel. That's the law.

SPEAKER_03 23:06

It would have been so fire if he would have turned it to the gospel. If he would have gone from that situation and been like, you know, oh, if he really felt that this guy was trusting in his obedience to going to church, or how some people were worried keeping the Sabbath, whatever it was, if he really thought that this guy was going that route, he could have turned it into, man, but is it isn't Christ a blessing? Isn't Christ coming to save us just a beautiful thing? Like, you know what I'm saying? And just went down that path because trust in Christ is what saves. So if you're going to rebuke someone for uh being a lawmonger or thinking that their works justify them, right? Talk to them about the free gift of salvation. Talk to them about that because the worst thing, this isn't what something uh one of my mentors, Dan, told me a long time ago, is that one of the worst things you can do is tell a tell a Christian he's not a Christian. You're you're literally pushing someone out the door that doesn't want to go out the door, but you're showing them that there's no other option, and there's that's the door. You have to go. You're not keeping this rather than realizing his yoke is easy. God can save anybody. He already is working on this man, he's already in his ear. Yeah. Why don't I encourage it and then point to that true definition of who our Savior is, who our Lord is, then cast shame, shun, and doubt, using the law properly, get me wrong, but there's a law gospel divide. You have to know when it's time for the gospel, when it's time to, nah, I need to point you to Christ. I need to point you to Christ. And that divide, it happens a lot of times with, especially at street preachers, also I notice. Yeah. Yeah. Man, they're throwing, if it was a pitching mound, they're throwing 105 mile per hour heat. Law. Law. Yeah. Law. Yeah. Softball of gospel. Law. That's very true. It's like you at some point you have to be able to proclaim the good news just as harshly you're doing this Matthew 7 type stuff. You have to, because that's what saves.

unknown 25:23

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 25:24

That's what saves. You could be a master, you can throw no hinder with the law. Ain't no one leaving their save unless they're placing their faith in Christ.

SPEAKER_01 25:32

Yeah. And it's so challenging, too, I think, especially in that street preacher culture, when you target people that you think are of a certain lifestyle. So you see the guy across the street who has a beer in his hand, and you already say, Oh yeah, that's the that's the center. Why not? But then the business, the businessman walking down the street with his briefcase, you let him go because you sort of assume he's safe. He's a good guy. And those things come to play when you're picking who you're going to engage. And your message oftentimes ends up being, I don't see the level of fruit that's Ivy League level, that's impressive. I need to go give this guy the gospel or this woman the gospel. They're definitely not saved. And you go in with this, yeah, this, they're living beneath the standard. I'm living above the standard. Let me go get them right. And when you don't understand that law gospel distinction, or when you're not discerning rightly in the conversation, just because a person's outward fruit, as we say, or morality doesn't match yours, you're thinking, I don't curse, I don't drink, I don't smoke, I don't go to clubs. This dude standing in front of a club with a drink cursing. Clearly, he can't be a Christian. And then you withhold the gospel because you want to get him in that or her in that moment to denounce those things. You want to, you take it upon yourself to in that moment get them to say, drinking's bad, cursing's bad, clubs are bad. Then you'll give them the gospel. But if they say, no, I go to church every Sunday, you're not willing to take the conversation in the direction of, praise God, man, that's that's powerful. We are forgiven by grace alone, through faith alone, not according to works. We're afraid of that because we actually have a problem with believing that God forgives sinners. That is a struggle for us, especially when we stop thinking that we're sinners.

SPEAKER_04 27:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:44

That's the tricky part, too.

SPEAKER_03 27:46

And it goes both ways. Meaning that, like, we have this side right here, right? That as we're talking about it and showing how, yo, we kind of have to be more lenient and be able to have conversations and proclaim the gospel just as strongly as the law. Because, like you just said, they'll see somebody uh in front of a club drinking a beer, maybe cussing, they'll say, I have to go give him the gospel. Honestly, I wish it was that. In real terms, it seems like I have to go give him the law. And if I get to the gospel, I get to it. I have to go give him the law. But, not to get sidetracked, on the other side, we have the more so a sense of who cares about discernment types? Whereas it's like, it doesn't matter. So it's a it's a law gospel, but it's a balance on both sides that we have to have because it's it's souls at risk out here. It's salvation at hand, it's God's free gift that He's blessing people with, you know? So those things that we have to really consider and ponder when we're in these situations talking to people.

unknown 28:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:52

And that's good. And it reminds me of this next clip we'll get into because it it shows you that it's sort of like the surgeon, the surgeon who's trained and skilled at knowing what uh scalpel to use, because he knows I have to go in delicately to cut. I can't go in aggressively here because this part of the body is vulnerable, right? So that's why we're championing training and valuing scripture and study because we need to be surgical out here underneath God's uh might and power and caring and slowing down and not coming in hot. Because if you just come in swinging the scapel or the sword, you can be cutting and splintering and damaging brothers and sisters in the faith, or you can discourage people who are non-Christians. You're giving them the law, but now it's time to give gospel, but you keep pressing in harder and harder with the law because you're not a trained surgeon. You don't know when to pivot. So that's this is why we have to be careful about both extremes. Because, like you just mentioned, and in this next clip, we'll see where you fall off the horse on the other end where you think, well, let's just let's just get along. Let's just grace, grace, grace, grace, grace, grace. That's just as dangerous.

SPEAKER_05 30:19

Can I just say something real quick, okay? This is um, I actually I I've thought about this for a little while. Um, I think it would be awesome. It would take everyone uh setting our pride and our differences aside. Um it's just this is just a thing, you know, one small thing, but like I believe all Christians should be like I believe churches should be like this. I believe that if you are part of the body of Christ, we should be able to do these things, right? It would be so awesome if I don't know if you guys know who Kai Sanat is, right? The streamer, how he has like streamer university, and he he gets all the streamers together and they have this big night where they all get together, talk, laugh, eat together, right? It would be awesome if Christian content creators can set aside differences and do something like that. I would love. I would love for that to happen.

SPEAKER_00 31:08

Um now this is where I think we're about to drift off into some murky waters. Let's see where where is Aaron taking this.

SPEAKER_05 31:19

I don't know all everyone's names. There's gonna there's names that, you know, I'm forgetting, but like if Ruslin and Marcus Rogers was able to sit down in the same room, pray and you know, eat together, spend time together.

SPEAKER_00 31:32

Um I've had the pleasure of meeting Ruthline, shout out to Rusline. I've never met Marcus. I think we've had one or two small little interactions across social media a couple years ago, nothing major. I will say those two hold very different theological worldviews. So even though both are using the word Christian, what I know about Ruslin, uh, Ruthline is within orthodoxy. Whereas Marcus Rogers in the past I know he has at times rejected the Trinity outright. I think in recent years he's maybe softened up a little bit on a hard no as far as the Trinity, but it still seems as though he's a little ambiguous, as though he's not really willing to say yes, I affirm or deny. I if if I'm presenting his position correctly, I think at this point he might say it's it's just not a salvation issue, it doesn't matter. But it does matter because the Trinity has historically been like one of the pivotal doctrines of the Christian faith. Without the Trinity, you don't have the God of the Bible, you don't have the God of Scripture, you don't have the Jesus of Scripture. So I said all that to say Erin, who I'm you know confident is well-meaning and saying we as a church need to come together, but we should not come together with views that are heretical.

SPEAKER_01 32:59

Yeah, yeah. I like what she's saying, I like where she's going, I like that 100%, 100%. It's interesting too because that should not be controversial. Like what she's saying should be a simple, yes, of course. But because of this sort of the spirit of the day that leads with niceness, not kindness, niceness, where you're trying to please everybody and you're willing to even remove important things for the sake of pleasing everybody, that is a controversial take that she has. Wait, I understand both of these gentlemen use the word Christian. They both name the name Jesus, but one is within the realm of safeness because he affirms rightly the biblical teaching of the Godhead, the Trinity. The other denies it and maybe he softened a bit, but still by and large, he's not willing to say that it's biblical. She's saying, no, we can't just come together and pray and pretend those significant differences don't matter. That's the other extreme. But this this gentleman, Aaron, his YouTube channel is ridiculously large. Each video he's getting over 100,000 views, over 200,000 views. And it seems to be the case that many people are okay with this sentiment. And that is very dangerous because we have to hold the line and remember that Christianity is a thing. We can't relinquish the parameters, the boundaries for the sake of coming together kumbaya. That is not a biblical sentiment. So so far, she's highlighting rightly where bro is falling off the horse on the other end. And that's what we're saying. Two sides of this coin.

SPEAKER_03 35:04

Right, right. I I do like her temperament in regards to it, basically saying that, you know, um when it comes to a church gathering, or if we're united in concord with each other, there's certain differences people can have, but there are certain differences we cannot have. And the example he used are things we're like, no, we have to have a divide here. I mean, perfect example. You could look at, I think our channel is a good representation of something like this, to where we'll could treat we'll uh critique brothers as sisters in the faith, like Philip Anthony Mitchell, right? But we actually like dude, like you know what I'm saying, like he we would consider him a brother in Christ, but we still could have our differences to where his take of, oh, get together and talk, oh yeah, we could proclaim, yeah, Christ, Christ is King, Christ is Lord, yeah. Compared to um Tim Ross. You know what I'm saying? But compared to other people that we talked about here, um where no, these differences are so distinct to where us doing, as he mentioned, getting together and just ignoring these differences leads to a sense of acceptance of key fundamental issues that are not within the realm of historic Christianity. We have to be able still to draw the line. So we don't go as far as we did beforehand in the first video where we're just, you know, looking for ways to kick people out or to cause um doubt in somebody, but we do have to know the lines to where when we get to that crossroad where it's like, ah, yeah, man, we can't go there with you. Can't go there with you. You know, so I like how she is holding that line of the difference between heterodoxy and heresy. There's a line there that has to be maintained and withheld.

unknown 37:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:04

And we can't go as far as to put niceness above it. I'll even go as far as to say your blackness above it. Because, and I know we're this is this isn't a conversation about that, but a lot of times people are willing to ignore various things like that because it's someone who looks like them, the same hue as them. I've listened to popular podcasts where they say, oh, I won't critique black pastors on various things because they have enough people going at them. What? This has nothing to do with enough people going at them. If a topic's relevant and he's leading people astray, I'd rather have 10,000 people saying, yo, stop Kreflow dollar, than people saying, nah, I'm not gonna do it because he's a fellow black man. That's not healthy. That's not healthy. And I'm not trying to get into some, you know what I'm saying, some uh Black History Month type lecture or some DEI talk. No, I'm just saying in general, this can apply too if if it was an Asian dude speaking heresy, and uh, you know what I'm saying, whatever reason it was. My point is, is we have to be able to draw a line of knowing when it's valid, we have to say something compared to know it's okay to have these nuanced differences.

SPEAKER_01 38:19

Yeah, that's so good, bro. And it's and it's interesting too because in a culture, what people will get lit about, what they'll what they'll exert energy to confront is immorality, fruit bearing. So if a person, you know, was exposed for some licentious lifestyle, the people will come out of everywhere pointing the finger, rightly criticizing the pastor who's taking advantage of vulnerable women in this church. Everybody will come out and they'll say, shame, shame, shame. And, you know, there's a place for that for sure, because people in their minds only believe fruit is moral uprightness. But when someone is teaching false doctrine, they don't consider that bad fruit. When someone is teaching right doctrine, they don't think of that as good fruit. They have pigeonhaled the term fruit to only be moral uprightness or moral failure. And we have to correct that because scripture vehemently talks about both things, morality and doctrine. In fact, it's probably the case when people's doctrine is bad, that it can lead to a haphazard attitude toward how they live. That's why a lot of times you see these grossly off heretical ministries teaching all kinds of whack theology. You dig deeper and then bam, something even worse comes out. They've been doing all kinds of crazy stuff, and people are shocked. Oh my goodness, how can the dude who had a prophecy camp be the guy who's been taking advantage of these teenage girls? Well, the writing's been on the wall for a long time. Every time he's telling you to decree and declare more money, to decree and declare a new house, to sell your house, give him the money, and God's gonna bless you. You didn't realize that that was the fall already. He had already fallen by teaching those damnable doctrines. You tolerated that because you thought, who am I to say whether or not God is speaking to him? Who am I to say that God ain't using him to do this mighty act of miracle? You tolerated those things. And when the when the rubber hit the fan, what is it, when it when, right, whatever the saying is, when the when the what is it, when a ceiling hit the fan, hit the roll, the rubber hit the roll, silly hit the fan.

SPEAKER_03 41:07

When the number two, you know what I'm saying? All that I ain't gonna You don't try to volunteer my You feel me?

SPEAKER_01 41:17

When it got real, now you shocked. Oh my goodness. I can't believe it. Well, you should have seen the writing on the wall a long time ago. So we have to we have to develop the muscle that and it's fun. I'm gonna bring this up. I'm gonna bring this up in the CHH community. It was uh some hoopla between um um, what's buddy's name? Caleb Gordon. Yeah. And and and Dirk Minor. Yeah, I remember that. I saw people coming out of the woodworks rebuking Caleb Gordon. People that are mostly silent when it comes to sitting on a couch with these false teachers, allowing, you know, all kinds of bad doctrine to fly through the community, they'll let that go. But the moment they disagree with Caleb, then they come out being bold, then they come out ready for all the smoke. And I'm like, wait, where'd that come from? Why have you been so quiet and hush-hush when these theological tragedies have been wreaking havoc in the community? But now when something you consider a moral falling short, now you big bad, chest out. You that's pride, bruh. That's pride. It's like, yo, chill. If you're gonna care about that, you have to, in like manner, care about right teaching. Those things belong together. That's all I'm saying.

SPEAKER_03 42:38

Yeah. And one thing I added to the conversation also is is legalism and antinomianism aren't as far apart as people think. Meaning that, like, well, the word antinomian is that they say the law doesn't matter, the law's not around no more. We can do and live however we want to. And legalism, I think we all know what that is. Those are just two sides to the same coin. You still have a quarter. If you flip it heads, flip it tails, it's still the same quarter. Meaning that you can go as far as to say, you know, what are you doing to prove you're in heaven and all this law stuff, right? And then the other side you have, you know, oh, Christ died, we can do wherever we want to, we can live however we want to. Doctrine doesn't matter, it's just, you know, whatever, we're good, right? They both remove Christ. They both remove the aspect of one side is no, the law is not what saved you, Christ is. The other side is Christ saved you. How are you going to call him Lord? And you're sitting here looking at him just as a means to an end. He's not really your Lord. Like, it's a it's a delicate balance, but both of those two sides of the same coin ignore that aspect of it and go wherever they want to with God's word rather than staying true and faithful. To the word. And that ties to this because in the second clip that we did, like he's not worried about who God says he is. He's not worried about how God declared the truth of his word and his teaching and salvation all in being grafted into Jesus Christ. It's, well, they say Jesus' name. You know, we can we can ignore all the differences that we have on God's word and just come together and be one. We can't do that. We can't do that the same way on the other side, we can't go around minimizing God's words. It's a relationship. Do what you want. Like it just gets real loose with it. We have to keep it on doctrine and God's word. Does morality matter in the sense you're talking about? Yes, it matters. But yo, if you're going to be on 10 over this, how much should you be on someone misrepresenting who Christ is or where salvation is found? Like, why is that lower on your totem pole? Then I just don't understand. Um, we have to get to the part where we can rightfully, truthfully, and just biblically address these things in-house and out of house. All with love, of course, but one has a little more sting to it when it's dealing with heresy than heterodox.

SPEAKER_01 45:23

Yeah. That's well said, bro. And just getting to this next clip. But it you make me think about we shouldn't have to make this distinction, but we might need a term. I'm thinking of a term now. I'm thinking people understand uh moral lawlessness or moral antinomianism, right? We might need a term that talks about doctrinal antinomianism, where people don't have a law that informs them to care about doctrine. They have removed that law, that expectation, that command to care about doctrine. They remove that for the sake of kumbaya, let's just all get along. It's like, no, that doctrinal antinomianism is dangerous. Maybe we need a term to help people understand. I know you are sensitive to moral lawlessness. By all means, you're gonna be out here super loud about make sure you do the law. But when it comes to doctrine, you don't have law. You just you remove that parameter. So maybe that's something that's helpful to think about. But we're gonna finish this clip. Um, it gets a little bit more into it. It's kind of more of the same, but it goes a little further. So let's get into that.

SPEAKER_00 46:40

So, what am I saying? Aaron is saying we all need to come together as Christian content creators, put our differences aside. But these are big differences, these are not differences that we should be putting aside because we're talking about the essential doctrines of the Christian faith. Once you start mixing in Hebrew Israelism and uh oneness Pentecostalism or modalism or any other type of heresy, you can get yourself into some trouble. So that's my soapbox. Let's um let's keep going.

SPEAKER_05 47:10

Isaiah Salvador.

SPEAKER_00 47:12

Um Isaiah Salvador. Now, I would be lying if I said I've OD'd on his content because I haven't. But the little bit I know about him is he does seem to be kind of off into the deliverance ministry, hyper charismatic. Here, demon, there, demon, everywhere, demon, demon type stuff. I mean, it would be uh who smart Christian channel, right? I like Smart Christian Channel. Shout out to Corey. I'm glad that he's recovering. That was pretty scary there for a minute.

SPEAKER_05 47:41

I forgot his name. Um I I check his stuff out a lot. Love his channel. It would be great if you know we could put aside those differences that are not essential to the faith as in is Jesus Christ God? Right? Is he the son of God? Did he come down to earth and die for our sins? Did he live a perfect life, something that we couldn't do? Right? Did he is he seated at the right hand of God? Like the core doctrinal theologies, like uh, you know what I'm saying? The core things, those are important.

SPEAKER_01 48:14

Yeah, in brief, it's so interesting too that people are now defining the essentials at random, apart from the ecumenical councils, the the creeds that the ancient church has preserved that brings us, unites us together. They've dismissed those, and now the essentials, according to, I believe his name is Aaron, right? The essentials, according to him, are stuff that Mormons could say amen to, Jehovah's Witnesses could say amen to. The list goes on. It's like, bro, no.

SPEAKER_03 48:55

I'll be honest, like the Gnostics that John wrote about in the Gospel of John, they will be in his world. Let's go to the Gospel of John. Actual gospel. He's writing against people that a group, a segment, the Gnostics is pretty broad, that would say Jesus did die, but he didn't have a real body. He wasn't really man. You know, we're dealing with things like that where they still could go off and say what he said. But what the the things he listed as the essentials per himself. We have there's people in church history going back to the same time period that I mean, like literally would say that Jesus wasn't a man or that he achieved his status by morality and things and living this life that was contested in Scripture. So this notion of how he's defining the essentials isn't how the historic church or the apostles classified it as we have to have a standard of what we're going to, if we're gonna lay lay out essentials, we have to have a basis for what those essentials are, other than I think today it's this. So, nah.

SPEAKER_01 50:20

Yeah. Nah, I agree, bro. And you're right, it's found the foundation is the word which establishes those essentials. And it's like, bro, one of the main false teachings that the apostle John is fighting against is the one you're saying, we should just let people in, as long as they at least believe that. It's like, bro, you can't do that, bro. And then the church, the history of the church that had to continue to preserve what John wrote in every attack that took on a new face, these church fathers have to constantly fight against all these new versions of those same attacks. And that's why these things are important. You can't isolate yourself from the word of God, from the history of the church, and make up your own essentials in the name of spiritual maturity. Is if you've outsmarted God, you've outsmarted the apostles, you've outsmarted the church fathers, you've outsmarted the creeds and councils, and you come up with a better way forward to unite us, and that's on the most unifying, barely biblical things, as long as you kinda, it's like, nah, bro, you cannot do that. So, anyway, that's pretty much it. I mean, he's they're gonna go on and keep harping on that thing. But anything you want to say before I move on? Nah.

SPEAKER_03 51:49

Um, this is my first time seeing um her channel. I kind of I like the vibe of what she's going for. Um, yo, like if she sees it, keep doing your thing. Um, I do like the distinction she's drawing in regards to the aspect of we have to be honest about doctrine and hold that up there. Um I really appreciate that. I don't know who the errand dude she was reacting to. Um, but as far as her, it's kind of weird. We're reacting to a reactor, reacting to something. But um I did like that in regards to her tone and her actual sentiment. But as far as our overall points, I think that when you're in the wild and you're really talking about these things, you do have to have grace, but you also do have to know what the actual essentials are of where you draw the line. The last thing you want to do is be talking people out the faith because you've determined something not to be enough, or you haven't dialogued enough to know exactly where a person stands. You know, um, and then on the other side of not caring where a person stands and letting people just believe whatever they want to believe. And if I'm gonna be honest, usually that's the I'm spiritual, I'm not religious crowd. Sorry, not sorry. It usually is, you guys. Whereas like I'll I'll I'll believe or do whatever I want to and say whatever I want to or hold whatever view I want to, or pick apart parts of the Bible that I want to, kind of like the example we just saw. Um, you can't be in favor for something that the apostle John was against. You just can't. Now, when people bring up Augustine and Christmas, you might have a leg to stand on and say, Well, that's not Jesus, that's not Scripture, that's a man-made thing. Okay, you have a leg to stand, barely a leg to stand on. You have a toe you can lean on, okay? When you're changing the faith to show niceness and you're going against tenets that the Apostle John held, like, I guess I should say this because it's good to know. There's context to the gospels of who they're writing to and who they're addressing in the way that they set things up. The reason why Luke starts off to my dear friend Theodosius or Theolopolis, I forgot to pronounce his name, but you could tell he's laying out an evidentiary case of the research that he's done he's out there to establish this. For John, he is combating stuff going on with the Gnostics and things in that time span by proclaiming the truth of Christ, which he was there for. There's no way to get around that and say that, yeah, you know, but guess what? In 2026, I'm good with that stuff. So why don't we have a pizza party and do a live stream and all proclaim Christ together? Yeah, I can't. I can't. Because the Jehovah's Witness next to me is talking about a different Jesus. Like they're literally, he's literally talking about some doing them Jesus. I don't know that Jesus. I don't. I don't, man. You know, I can't rock with that. We have to have some line, and we have to be careful with that line to not fall on the other side.

SPEAKER_01 55:14

Yeah, that's good. And it and it's not humility to not care. Just because you have, you know, a soft face, soft features, you know what I'm saying? You look just humble and, you know, you're just so happy and nice. Like, that's not humility. You it's not humility to not care about these things. And just, can we all just get along? No, that is not a virtue. That is um, in one sense, it's very prideful to tell the Holy Spirit, nah, we got this, we got this, these are the essentials. So, you know, I get it. People are on edge to not seem mean. Okay, but it's there's no humility in not caring. And then the guy she mentioned, Isaiah Saladore, no, he's one of the worst of the worst. She was like, I don't know if he's no, he's one of the worst ever on in the history of heretics. So, literally one of the worst ever. So just to put that out there, like I know she was trading lightly, but no, one of the worst of the worst. Worse than Benny Hinn, the worst. Worse than all Rob, uh, was what's buddy name? Kenneth, worse. That says a lot.

SPEAKER_03 56:32

Yeah, but we got all the same names out there. What's your goat of heretics? You you going crazy. My Mount Rushmore of Heretics. Mount Rusper is Aries. Hold on. I got them. I got them, bro. Wow. Seriously. I do a uh a heretic goat list one day.

SPEAKER_01 56:58

But yeah, y'all stay tapped in. Make sure you hit that button. What is it? The uh hit the hype button, like, comment, subscribe. All those things help us move these things around. Uh, we're so encouraged by the comments. People are being lifted up, challenged, growing, learning, all of that. So keep it going. Until next time, the study boys, you the study, the study, the study.